A Global Historical Survey: Does Accepting Homosexuality Lead to Civilizational Ruin?

A while ago I had a discussion with some friends about homosexuality and morality.  Eventually I made the comment:

Well it doesn’t directly affect you. If you didn’t know it was happening, what negative effect would it have on your life?

To this they responded something to the effect that homosexuality “degrades” the values of society and has been part of the downfall and collapse of empires and nations. It was just so obvious, they claimed, simply look at Sodom and Gomorrah or the Greek and Roman Empires!

I didn’t quite know what to say about all of this then.  Frankly it was more shock than anything.  But after going home I knew I could easily look into this empirical claim.  They made a confident assertion about the causal relationship between social phenomena.

I decided to look it up.  Specifically, I decided to, first, do a case study on the Greek/Hellenistic and Roman Empires, which they themselves claimed were ‘ruined by homosexual lusts’.  I also decided to throw in Japan, so as to look at a country without the same kind of Western history or Judeo-Christian mores, as well as general ‘Global Trends’ in the past 100-200 years when homosexuality has been increasingly accepted.

The following is a brief outline of some things I found and my own little comments on them. My sources are mostly Wikipedia as well as a variety of other sites.  I didn’t cite everything, but you can easily copy-paste text and search it yourself.  I tried to take just concrete and objective facts and dates as measurements of acceptance of homosexuality and when they finally collapsed in part for this reason.   If you challenge any of the data, notice I left something out or question interpretations, please comment below.

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Hellenistic, Macedonian, Greek Civilization

Homosexuality in Ancient Greece and the Hellenistic Renaissance:

’385 BCE Plato’s Symposium is published. Plato argues that love between males is the highest form of love and that sex with women is lustful and only for means of reproduction. Only with men, can the Greek male reach their full intellectual potential.’  Sexual intimacy was common between older mentors and younger students.

Nude Greek Youth

“A nude youth plays the aulos for a banqueter: Attic red-figure cup by the Euaion Painter, ca. 460–450 BC”

’338 BCE The Sacred Band of Thebes, an undefeated elite battalion made up of one hundred and fifty gay couples, is destroyed by the forces of Philip II of Macedon who bemoans their loss and praises their honor.’

’326 BCE Gay/bisexual military leader Alexander the Great completes conquest of most of the then known Western world, converting millions of people to the gay-friendly Hellenistic culture and launching the Hellenistic Age.’

End of the Hellenistic Age and Greek/Macedonian Empire:

‘Ends with the annexation of the Greek peninsula and islands by Rome in 146 BC with the sacking of Corinth by the Roman Lucius Mummius’

Notes on the Greek/Hellenistic Empire:

Plato is the teacher of Aristotle who was Alexander the Great’s, one of the most world famous homosexuals of history, tutor.  Alex the Great then went on to conquer the known world and set up the precursor to the Roman Empire, see next section.  Homosexuals, bisexual’s and those who supported such had major roles in founding and creating the best of Hellenistic civilization, which lasted for centuries afterword. 

The Roman Empire

Acceptance of Homosexuality in Roman Empire:

Roman Emperor Elagabalo

Bust of Roman emperor Elagabalus

“146 BCE – Although the establishment of Roman rule did not break the continuity of Hellenistic society and culture, which remained essentially unchanged until the advent of Christianity, it did mark the end of Greek political independence.”

“27 BCE – The Roman Empire begins with the reign of Augustus. The first recorded same sex marriages occur during this period. The Roman Empire is a time in which art and literature depict homosexual love in a positive light. Romans, like the Greeks, celebrated love and sex amongst men. Two Roman Emperors publicly married men, some had gay lovers themselves, and homosexual prostitution was taxed.”

“98 – Trajan, one of the most beloved of Roman emperors, begins his reign. Trajan was well known for his homosexuality and fondness for young males. This was used to advantage by the king of Edessa, Abgarus, who, after incurring the anger of Trajan for some misdeed, sent his handsome young son to make his apologies, thereby obtaining pardon.”

“130 – Emperor Hadrian’s beloved Antinous drowns in the Nile, and upon Hadrian’s death, Antinous was deified. He is actually the last non-imperial human to be deified”

218 – The emperor Elagabalus begins his reign. He married a man named Zoticus, an athlete from Smyrna, in a lavish public ceremony at Rome”

End of Homosexual Acceptance in Roman Empire:

305- 306 Council of Elvira (now Granada, Spain). This council was representative of the Western European Church and among other things, it barred homosexuals the right to Communion.”

“313 Emperor Constantine declares the Empire as Christian.”

“314 Council of Ancyra (now Ankara, Turkey). This council was representative of the Eastern European Church and it excluded the Sacraments for 15 years for unmarried men under the age of 20 who were caught in homosexual acts and excluded the man for life if he was married and over the age of 50.”

“342 – The first Roman law against homosexual marriage was promulgated by the Christian emperors Constantius II and Constans.”

End of Roman Empire:

“476 – The traditional date of the fall of the Roman Empire is September 4, 476 when Romulus Augustus, the last Emperor of the Western Roman Empire was deposed by Odoacer.”

Other Dates for ‘End of Roman Empire’:

Justinian 1, the Last Roman Emperor and a Christian

Justinian the 1st, The Last Roman Emperor and a Christian

378 – the Battle of Adrianople in 378,”

395 – the death of Theodosius I (the last time the Roman Empire was politically unified),”

406 – the crossing of the Rhine by Germanic tribes after the withdrawal of the troops in order to defend Italy against Alaric I.”

408 – the death of Stilicho, followed by the disintegration of the western army,”

410 – the Sack of Rome, the first time in almost 800 years that the city of Rome had fallen to a foreign enemy.”

565 – The death of Justinian I, the last Roman Emperor who tried to re-conquer the west.”

Notes on the Roman Empire

The Hellenistic Empire’s art, culture, philosophy and religion flowed into that of the Roman Empire.  As you can see homosexuality was widely accepted from its beginning up until Emperor Constantine when the Empire was formally converted to Christianity.  With the new religion, after nearly 600 plus years with a culture that was pro-homosexual, homosexuality is discouraged and outlawed.  The Empire then only lasts another 173-260 years, depending on which dates you want to use.  This may seem like a lot, but remember that this is Rome’s ‘Age of Decline’.  It lasted for centuries more, but in a weaker and weaker state.

It appears to be clear that Rome’s rise corresponded with more liberal positions on homosexuality and its stricter anti-homosexual stance corresponded to its disintegration.  If anything, this indicates that acceptance of homosexuality is needed for a society to flourish.

Japan

The Acceptance of Homosexuality in Japan:

Homosexuality in Japan

A Japanese homosexual couple (1750). The youth on the left is wearing a traditional woman’s kimono.

“Unlike the West, in Japan sex was not viewed in terms of morality, but rather in terms of pleasure, social position, and social responsibility. While modern attitudes to homosexuality have changed, this is frequently true even today. Like the pre-modern West, only sexual acts were seen as being homosexual or heterosexual, not the people performing such acts.”

While homosexuality had never been viewed as a ‘sin’ in Japanese society and religion, ‘sodomy’ was restricted by legal prohibition in 1873. This was done mostly to emulate Western laws. The provision was then repealed seven years later by the Penal Code of 1880.

“Japan has no laws against homosexual activity, and has some legal protections for gay individuals. In addition, there are some legal protections for transgender individuals. Consensual sex between adults of the same sex is legal, but some prefectures set the age of consent for same-sex sexual activity higher than for opposite-sex sexual activity. While civil rights laws do not extend to protection from discrimination based on sexual orientation, some governments have enacted such laws. The government of Tokyo has passed laws that ban discrimination in employment based on sexual identity.”

The Japanese Empire and Progress:

I don’t think I have to do any research to convince anyone that Japanese culture is highly sophisticated and that the Japanese economy is on par with the West.

Notes on Japan:

Japan never included homosexuality in its list of moral no-no’s.  It outlawed homosexuality for a few years merely to appease Western powers.  Yet it has been a central economic, cultural, political powerhouse around the world.  Even after being demolished in WWII it only took a few years to recover.

Like Greece and Rome, homosexuality in Japan has never been considered as a moral abomination and the acceptance of it has not correlated at all with economic or social disintegration.

Global Trends

Countries and Dates of Decriminalization of Homosexuality in the 1800s:

1791 France; 1795 Luxemburg and Tuscany; 1811 Netherlands; 1813 Bavaria; 1830 Brazil; 1871 Guatemala and Mexico; 1880 Japan; 1886 Argentina; 1889 Italy

Countries and Dates in 1900/2000s:

Pride Protest in Spain

Gay Pride Parade in Spain following the passing of Same Sex Marriage laws

Decriminalisation: 1922 USSR; 1924 Panama, Paraguay and Peru; 1932 Poland; 1933 Denmark and Philippines; 1934 Uruguay; 1940 Iceland; 1942 Switzerland; 1944 Switzerland and Suriname; 1945 Portugal; 1951 Greece; 1956 Thailand; 1961 Czechoslovakia and Hungary; 1962 1st US State (Illinois); 1963 Israel; 1969 Canada; 1967 England, Wales, and Chad; 1968 Bulgaria; 1970 Kosovo; 1971 Austria, Costa Rica and Finland; 1972 Norway; 1977 Croatia, Montenegro and Slovenia; 1979 Cuba and Spain; 1980 Scotland; 1981 Columbia; 1986 New Zealand; 1988 Belize and Israel; 1989 Liechtenstein; 1990 Jersey; 1991 Bahamas, Hong Kong and Ukraine; 1992 Estonia and Latvia; 1993 Belarus, Gibraltar, Lithuania and Russia; 1994 Bermuda, Serbia and South Africa; 1995 Albania and Moldavia; 1996 Romania and Macedonia; 1998 Bosnia/Herzegovina, Chile, Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Tajikistan and Cyprus; 2000 Azerbaijan, Georgia, and Gabon; 2003 Armenia; 2004 Cape Verde and Marshal Islands; 2005 Uganda; 2008 Nicaragua and Panama;

Notable US Dates

1974 1st open Homosexual in US pub office; 1983 1st openly Homosexual member of US Congress; 1984 Berkeley, Cal. 1st US city to ensure health benefit to Homosexuals; 1992 WHO removes homosexuality from the ICD-10 (its official list of diseases); 1995 the Human Rights Campaign (US NGO) adds homosexual rights to their agenda; 2000 Vermont 1st US state with Civil Unions; Currently several US states plus DC recognize same sex marriages with a number of other recognizing domestic partnership.

I did not list all of the rest of the US states. Also I did not list countries that never criminalized homosexuality in the first place.  Mostly those that didn’t were countries where Christianity was never part of the culture (like Japan).  I could not find a list of those which were never criminalized.

Notable World Trends During the Period of Increasing Global Homosexual Acceptance:

1) Increased Peace: no wars have ever been fought between democracies (barring skirmishes in Georgia and Russia, though both can be argued aren’t actually democratic nor had an actual war).

2) World infant mortality rate declined from 126 in 1960 to 57 in 2001.

3) All but two countries are now identified as democratic.  In the 1940 to the present the number of countries scoring 8 or higher on Polity IV scale (1.0-10.0), a widely used measure of democracy, jumps from 7 to 65.

4) Literacy rates for 2008 of the 192 countries of the world according to the UN Development Program’s Human Devo Report listed 49 countries having above 99% literacy rates, 15 more above 97%, 32 more above 96%, 37 more above 90% and the bottom 26 countries on the list ranging from 22-59% literate.

For comparison, in England in 1841, then the world power, 40% had to sign contracts with a ‘general mark’ because they could not even write their own name.

5) Life expectancy today is 77 years worldwide.  Life expectancy in the US in 1900 was 47 years and in India was 32.

Notes on Global Trends:

The global trends are as clear as can be.  Policy towards homosexuality has been overwhelming liberal with increasing acceptance in the past 100-200 years.  During this same time almost all indicators concerning quality of life and civilizational ‘advancement’, instead of decline, have shown vast improvement.

In other words, acceptance of homosexuality in fact correlates with the strengthening of the social fabric.

___________________

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Societal_attitudes_toward_homosexuality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_sexual_orientation
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_homosexuality
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_Japan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_rights_by_country_or_territory
http://internationalliving.com/2010/01/2010-quality-of-life-index-194-countries-ranked-and-rated/
http://www.elderweb.com/book/appendix/1900-2000-changes-life-expectancy-united-states
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infant_mortality#Global_trends
http://www.uis.unesco.org/literacy/Pages/default.aspx

Paul Chiariello (Chief Editor, Rutgers & Yale University)
DSC_0484Paul Chiariello graduated from Rutgers in 2009 after studying Philosophy and Anthropology and has been running around the world ever since. Currently he is on the Board of Directors of the Rutgers Humanist Community, Co-founder of the Yale Humanist Community, and Director of the Humanism & Philosophy Curriculum for Camp Quest, Inc.  Paul has a MSc in Comparative Education from Oxford, completing his field research in Bosnia on ethno-religious identity and conflict, and has spent a year studying philosophy of ethics and religion at Yale on a PhD fellowship.  He has also worked with research organizations at the UN and in DC, as well as schools abroad in Uganda, Kenya, India, Indonesia and Germany.

53 responses to “A Global Historical Survey: Does Accepting Homosexuality Lead to Civilizational Ruin?

  1. Thank you for this article. I agree absolutely that rather than heralding the downfall of civilisation, the acceptance of gay rights (and women’s rights too) are a barometer of a society’s resilience against authoritarian rule. Societies where the prevailing cultures reject prejudice and discrimination on the basis of race, gender and sexual orientation enable all sections of society the freedom to develop their abilities and contribute fully to society and deny pathological elites scapegoats for populist campaigns of oppression. The fight for gay rights and women’s rights across the Arab world, south Asia and India, and elsewhere, is not just about the safety and freedom of women and gay people, it is about the safety and freedom of us all.
    http://bit.ly/15PBWmN

    Liked by 1 person

    • With all your learning and educational achievements (Paul Chiariello) the most important thing that is missing in your research is intellectual honesty. Your conclusions do not necessarily follow and are full of errors in your thinking. “Thinking themselves wise, they have become fools.” Does that sound familiar? I’ll guess your response to that is inappropriate and objectionable too. Look for truth rather than trying to force some (mis) interpretation of (irrelevant) empirical data into evidence and thus forming it into any shape you covet or lust after like a wax nose.

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  3. Great read. But couldn’t one argue that homosexuality gave rise to the pederasty in Ancient Greece? Or at least created an cultural atmosphere conducive to it?

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    • Who knows. Do another survey to see if they do commonly coincide.

      Ask, does you hypothesis pan out in Rome? Japan? The modern progressive world? I haven’t looked, but I’ll put my money on ‘No’. Homosexuality is a different and separate phenomena than pederasty.

      I see no reason to think that accepting homosexuality leads to gay pedophilia than accepting heterosexuality leads to straight pedophilia

      Liked by 2 people

      • Most of these civilizations were ruled and designed by homosexual aristocracies. Who believed and practiced the occult. It’s obvious that any opposing force to them would ruin their civilizations.

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        • Buwahahaha!
          Man – they survived in many cases for thousands of years. Apparently, a homosexual aristocracy that practices the occult is a very stable form of governence.

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      • I’d agree with that. It’s a common claim of those who oppose same sex marriage or sexual activity. Realistically it’s irrelevant. One may as well state that sexual activity between members of the opposite sex results in paedophilia. Surely no one claims that young people of either sex weren’t made to have heterosexual sex in ancient Greece?

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      • Most homos like young boys with tight asses…thus pedophilia.
        A real man likes hot chicks with curves…34D 24 34…
        All pedophiles are basically homos

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  5. The article is misleading in that it portrays homosexual relationships in the ancient world as though they were practiced in the same way they are practiced in the West today. In reality Homosexuality in ancient Rome and Greece was commonly pedophilia between older men of status and boys of a lower class. In ancient Rome sex with freeborn male youths was outlawed as it was considered likely to ruin the reputation of the latter.
    http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/truth-about-sexuality-ancient-greece-and-rome261012

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    • Just to expand a bit, modern gay relationships can be equal in footing, while homosexuality in the ancient world was more akin to an expression of dominance of one man over another in the patriarchal sense that modern feminists reject women being subject to.

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  6. The acceptance of homosexuality in 1960s and 70s. also known as gay liberation, resulted in the onset of HIV/AIDS global pandemic, which resulted in tens of millions of deaths from AIDS related illnesses. Homosexual men still remain the main spreaders of sexually transmitted diseases, while lesbians are the cleanest when it comes to STDs.

    The article didn’t even mention HIV. Cherry picking only pro-gay info.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Because AIDS didn’t exist in Roman times.
      Did you even pay attention to the argument? It’s the idea that homosexuality leads to the collapse of Empires. He definitively disproves that.

      Liked by 1 person

  7. I think you are as confussed as your friends who attributed the fall of nations to homosexuality. The fact of the matter is homosexuality neither helps nor harms a nations strength.

    Liked by 1 person

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  9. Homosexuality can NLT cause thecdeyeriattipn of the family a normal family this! Me participating in this stop caring about thier wives children morality deminish rs corruption increases crime and morals degrade where nothing is wrong everything becomes ok and no society can exist that way for long with out good chrustian based rules we all become animals!

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  10. Anytime there’s a discussion about gay rights or keeping gays and straights seperate I hear screams if discrimination which us far from the truth the straight want nothing to do with gays so a bathroom made strictly for lgbt makes sense tge gays stay in their. Place with each other no one wants to walk into a bathroom and see two faders going at each other damn can’t they do that at home? So yes I think with tge rise of aids studs moral decay hoseuality can greatly lead to a decline of any society!

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    • AIDS didn’t exist in Roman times and has been reigned in over the last several years, on its way to being swiftly eliminated. You’re crying some serious wolf.

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      • AIDS on it way to being swiftly eliminated? I think you need to do a quick fact check before posting things like that. With there currently being over 30 million people on earth with AIDS, I don’t see it being eliminated anytime soon. 1.2 million of those people live in the United States. What group of people is this 1.2 million comprised of you ask? Mainly gay and bisexual African Americans. Any thoughts? I can’t comment much on if it contributes the the fall of society, other than I see no instance where it helps.

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  11. The details and “historicity” of these past civilizations and how they were “successful” along with their openness to homosexuality is extremely flawed. Two quick and EASY points:

    1. The argument that resistance to homosexuality came about later in the Roman Empire due to acceptance of Christianity is indeed false and short-sighted. You see, the very term “Christian” was an invented term…the term means “little Christs” and was used to mock those who followed Christ, many of which were known as “Jews”. God’s people (the Jewish People) predate all of those labels and opposed (and still do) homosexuality as well as other deviant sexual behavior. In ancient Rome (the Empire), there was no “sexual view/struggle” because sexuality was viewed as different. It was a status thing. It was wicked and wrong, but that is historically true…and by the way, Rome Fell. That leads me to point #2.

    2. As a matter of fact, every empire mentioned in this article to prop up the greatness of gayness have one thing in common-they’ve ALL fallen. For anyone interested, that’s not promising for the nations of the world embracing this immorality today. With all of the seemingly clever slogans of “Love is Love” and “Love always wins…” I have a real slogan for everyone to seriously consider; and I promise I share this with no intent other than an appeal to all to consider who your creator is and to acknowledge what HE thinks about the matter…and that is this “God always wins.”

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  12. Just because homosexuality may have been prevalent in the societies mentioned does not make it right. I can’t believe that one man inserting his penis into another man’s rectum could be considered normal love making and endorsed by God. Some things just don’t make sense.
    God calls homosexuality an abomination, modern society defends it.
    I think I’ll believe God over modern society.
    I’d like to mention that the Paul Chiariello’s stat regarding life expectancy is misleading. Many people actually lived well into their 70s in the early 1900s. Wide spread disease killed infants during those days. So as an example if an adult lived to be 80 and a new infant died the average age would have been 40.

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  13. This “survey” is so flawed and ridiculous in its conclusions it needs no explanation! A few posters have already pointed out the lack of credible analysis. More importantly, many actual scholars has shown that the exact opposite of your ridiculous suppositions and conclusion, although not simply with respect to homosexuality, but rather regarding sexual immorality including homosexuality/pederasty, and its deteriorating effect on societies.

    In essence the argument is that some sexual tension helps societies creative, and defensive capabilities, while respect for traditional families that support children , dont murder their infants and unborn, sustains culture. Sexual immorality, including adultery, homosexuality, abortion all satisfy ones immediate sexual urges without ethical or moral restraint to protect and encourage family life. It was NOT Christianity sexual morals that brought down the Roman empire!! What utter nonsense!

    It was the Romans Empires utter moral internal corruption and sexual decay that was rotting the empire from within, making the waves of invasions by the barbarians possible, thus completely ending the Roman Empire. Christianity survived because it was able to convert the Roman society and the invading barbarians. A new Christian empire was born and has lived for 2000 years!

    It is only as the secularists have gained a stronghold that we have been living on the fumes of Christianity as a sustaining force. Once those fumes have evaporated, a secular world cant help but feed on one another as the only unifying TRUTH they have is the one that comes from each of their own heads. And there is NO such thing as 7 billion forms of TRUTH! And since secularists conform to no objective moral truth, in the end , only might makes right! And thus moral relativism of modern day secularism is nothing other than a Dictatorship of the Cultural elites.

    And at this time in our history , the cultural secular elites are promoters of homosexuality and abortion and so they strive to impose their will on the rest of us with greater and greater undemocratic and authoritarian forces. This is only the beginning of their effort for control. They want absolute control. And we all know how absolute power, corrupts and destroys absolutely! This is what we have in store! Not some glorious reign of homosexual mores!

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  14. the fact you used antiwoman comments in your article is why I don’t trust gays….bringing back the good ole days when men purchased children (Nero) castrated them and dressed them up in their dead wife’s clothes. Elagabalus was put on the throne at 14 by his grandmother who had him assassinated at 18 after he raped a Vestal virgin. This is a good thing? And infant mortality rates are what?
    Surprised you didn’t mention Hadrian sacrificing his boyfriend to an Egyptian god to bring back his virility.
    Homosexuality is not a choice….but for some reason European gays are the most ruthless men against women that I’ve ever read about. As long as you yearn for the good old days I will fear you.

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  15. The vast majority of all countries that accept homosexuality are white countries. According to all reliable sources, the white race is headed towards Extinction. Their birth rate is below the replacement level. According to our reliable sources, African nations have some of the fastest growing economies. Africans are on track to be 4 billion within a hundred years what whites are on track to be extinct within 100 years. History repeats itself. The race that empresses homosexuality don’t even exist in 100 years

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  16. Thanks. This is the info I was looking for out of curiosity.
    It’s no surprise that religion was basically the cause of all the hatred. So sad a fake book fan influence so many weak minded fools to the point they hate their fellow man or woman for being happy and free.

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  17. You can be a role model or decadent. Some of these homosexuals were thoroughly evil people. USA is facing off against a 1.3 billion strong China and 1.2 billion person fundamentalist Muslim Ummah, and you want to accept homosexuality, which does not reproduce a single thing other than STDs?

    Have you gone mad? Do you have any geopolitical strategic wisdom? Any love for country? Any love for the future children you could have if you didn’t give in to the evil of homosexuality?

    God is real. He made you a certain way but we are all corrupted now. Homosexual temptation is just that: a temptation. God has power over it, if you will submit to God. You can choose between homosexuality for a few decades or Jesus forever. Choose wisely: the lives of your future children depend on it. I’m glad I chose Jesus. The homosexual temptations decrease over time and have now disappeared.

    It is like the tale of the two wolves within us. There I one good and one evil. They are fighting. The one who wins is the one we feed.

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  18. Homosexuality is a destructive force. It is also unsanitary to put a penis into an anal cavity. Ever heard of AIDS genius?
    The decline of the Roman and Greek Empires was largely due to the acceptance of Eastern morality (example…Persian eunuchs having great influence in Rome and the ascent of Philip the Arab (Arabs are the biggest homos) to Roman emperor. Effeminate leaders like Obama destroy nations. Real men lead such as George Washington and Vladimir Putin. Homosexuality is a pagan death cult. And fat ugly black and white women should Beloit to death as they serve no useful purpose.

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  19. Any culture that celebrates monkey dancing is worthless.
    Look at the Latino faggots, Arab queers, southeast Asian sissies and the African homos…more than 50% of their populations still don’t have flush toilets. Northern European culture (including USA) created orderly communities and didn’t jump around like a bunch of morons until the hippies came around and tried to put their penises in everyone’s buttholes. AIDS is nature’s way of getting rid of these effeminate dancing maggots. Chinese, Korean. and Mongolian cultures don’t dance around like fags and they have had highly advanced and great empires as did the Romans.
    Real men like John Wayne, Charles Bronson and Bruce Lee not to mention Dirty Harry Callahan don’t jump around like faggots.

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  20. Social engineering and down right blind stupidit, sure knows how to write scientific sounding articles with quite a bit of twisted facts. Marxism lives on through metrosexual journalists everywhere it would seem.

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  21. basically the acceptance of homosexuality is the symptom of a broader phenomenon. it can be thrown into the rest of the immoral mix of vices before the empire collapses. causality speaking, slavery was not the cause of the american civil war. secession of the state of south carolina was the true cause of a declaration of war. and the the ‘broader phenomenon’?…simply a denial of obedience to the one true god I AM….shalom.

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  22. You should elaborate more not just on the final conclusion, but also that any empire’s fall is not due in any degree to homossexuality being practiced or not.

    It deserves such emphasizing!

    Jews have never had an empire and they hold homossexuality as sin.

    Regarding Japan, it would be good to mention that pederasty was institutionalized among the samurai warrior class below the name Waka Shudo or Way of the Youngster.

    Thanks a lot for your research!

    Liked by 1 person

  23. Butt-Frackers always seem 2 find validation in their sin and moral degradation…getting data from a source that is stacking the deck works too!
    Butt-Frackers are what is left to humanity/mankind from the fallen Angels…they enjoyed Butt-Fracking animals and anything that moved!
    Since that time…men have used EVERY resource to change laws to allow acceptance of this insanity!
    Men can not seed the Soul to the body…only women can!
    If Evil REALLY wants to bypass GOD’S Gift to Mankind…Eliminate the helpmate of Humanity and Butt-Frack till you die!

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  24. Wikipedia isnt a source. Go back to highschool, other than that if it had legitimate sources it would be a good article.

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  25. Maybe the rise and acceptance of homosexuality is an effect of prosperity (e.g. people are more open) not the cause of prosperity, and that the decline/outlaw of homosexuality is the effect of decline, not the cause of decline? Also, how come lesbians are not celebrated in Rome when homosexuality supposedly was ? Or were they? Was the Roman Empire sexist back then?

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  27. Hi Paul,

    Thanks for the article

    I grew up in rural, evangelical christian circles, so the refrain that ‘the downfall of every great civilization started with the tolerance of homosexuality’ was something I heard over and over. Looking back, the claim is rather preposterous. More importantly: what a weight to strap around the neck of young, closeted LGBT people. Really, the downfall of every great civilization throughout history is our fault now? It wasn’t enough to call us an abomination, to insinuate we are weak, disgusting, and grotesquely evil?

    I always marvel at the intensity of the vitriol that so many feel towards sexually or gender queer people (illustrated by many of the comments here). They fervently insist that their own marriages, children, and societies are threatened by the acceptance of the LGBT community. It strikes me as rather absurd.

    In the end, I think it’s rather simple: the LGBT community is an easy target to create an out-group over which conservative in-groups can feel superior, thus satisfying their craving to feel legitimate, valid, wise, secure. The LGBT community is merely a reference point against which the conservative evangelicals can measure their own moral status.

    Caveat: not all conservative evangelicals think this way, I know many lovely, sincere christians in that community. But many do think that way, and their words have stuck like fire-brands to those of us queer folk who grew up in their midst.

    Liked by 1 person

    • Great response! Sorry you had to deal with that BS. Ain’t it the most insane thing ever how religious people, followers of Jesus fkn Christ, are so fkn hateful against anyone?! It’s as if the word altruism doesn’t exist for them, neither does the concept. Then again, considering the bibles message is to love EVERYONE, even your enemy, you’d think they’d welcome you and all with open arms. Instead we get anti non-white, anti-gay, anti-immigration, anti-refugee, anti-any religion, anti-women, anti-equality, anti-poor, anti-homeless, anti-abortion, anti-islam, anti-muslim and the list goes on and on. Like how fkn confusing is that? Is it LOVE everyone or HATE everyone? I can’t tell anymore. I can say 100% for sure the religious people are the reason I was pushed to atheism, lol. Thanks for opening my eyes “christians.”

      I like saying there is no god and if there was he’d not accept a single one of us into heaven, especially his “follower.”

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  28. “During this same time almost all indicators concerning quality of life and civilizational ‘advancement’, instead of decline, have shown vast improvement.”

    The news begs to differ with the above conclusion. Throughout Europe, there has been a dramatic rise in the number of terrors attacks. There is a surge of terrorists namely Jihadists being recruited due to the rise of social media. But an endangered and foolish society focuses on identity politics by toppling confederate statues, and fighting for unisex bathrooms. As predicted in the Bible, the world has turned against Israel and is a sign of the coming of the Messiah. The author of this article might want to consider revisiting his conclusion.

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  29. I am a follower of Jesus Christ and believe the Bible to be the word of God. It clearly states homosexuality is an abomination so I can never call it or any other kind of sin, anything else. However, the Bible also states we are ALL sinners (of some sort) and therefore we are ALL in need of salvation (from eternity in Hell). In love, God sent Jesus to take the punishment for our sin so He can freely extend salvation (living in Heaven with Him forever) to anyone who reaches out to Him to receive it.
    Christians are called to hate sin but love the sinner. We are not morally superior to anyone, since we are in fact, saved sinners. With His help we can overcome sin in our lives (rather than being overcome by sin) and grow up into our full potential in Him. The instant we ask Jesus to forgive our sins and save us He does, once and for all. However, growing into all He means for each of us to be happens over time. We can talk the talk sometimes before we can consistently walk the walk. Forgive us. Let that not distract however, from what is most important if you don’t know Christ:
    “For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him, shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send His Son into the world to judge the world but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged but he who does not believe has been judged already, because He has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” (John 3:16-18)
    I am Heaven-bound and you can be too by asking Jesus to forgive your sins and to save you. Know that He loves you and He will turn no one away. It’s a one time transaction guaranteed by God to last thru eternity. Don’t miss out on His free gift being extended to you–your eternal future depends on it.
    God bless you…

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    • You take JC and I’ll take the Torah. The Torah says: Teshuvah (repentance), Tehilla (prayer) and Tzedukah (give to charity) to ensure a better place in the world to come. Sounds good to me.

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    • Hi Deborah,

      I understand that you believe something completely different than I do, but I grew up in evangelical circles pursuing Jesus with all my heart. I understand why you believe what you believe, I am intimately familiar with your perspective, and I know that you aren’t going to agree with me no matter how well I present a counter-argument. You can’t agree, to do so would be to forfeit your place in your community, it would challenge your comfortable certainty in the bible, it would undermine the core beliefs that stabilize your world.

      I know, because I’ve forfeited my place, given up those comforts, and allowed my world to be destabilized for a time as I opened up about my experience–an experience that was incompatible with the evangelical worldview.

      Nonetheless, I’d like to offer you a response. My hope here isn’t to change your mind, it’s just to offer some nuance to your thinking, and perhaps help you to be more compassionate than dogmatic in your approach to LGBTQ people. I sense you are a compassionate person, and that you may honestly benefit from my story.

      I appreciate that you view all sin as sin, that you do not demonize same-sex attraction over other sins like so many people do. But I’d like to challenge a false-equivalency here: same-sex attraction is not just a temptation like other temptations. It’s not like porn or alcoholism or greed.

      I tend to have a lot of self control. I’m not patting myself on the back, I was just born that way. I made good choices my whole life, I was privileged to be born in a good family, I’m sincere and sweet by nature. I invested myself in trying to be like Jesus, studying the bible, and pursuing a life of serving others.

      I don’t tell you that as a point of pride, I just want you to have context.

      When I hit puberty, my friends started drooling over girls. Most wrestled with (and frequently gave in to) the use of pornography. A few secretly slept with girls in youth group. One or two got pregnant.

      Thankfully for them, all they had to do was repent, and then they were welcomed back into the Christian community as equals. They could struggle with pornography all they wanted, so long as they were always struggling against it. And, as they got older, they could divorce and remarry with few Christians batting an eye, so long as they repented.

      They were struggling with temptation comparable to alcohol or porn or greed, but defeating their temptation meant returning to a respected place in the Christian community, their families, their children, and eventually their grandchildren. Resisting temptation meant a joyful family life for them.

      I did not struggle with much sexual temptation. Not because I’m so great, but because I generally don’t have much lust (which serves me well in my current career as a nurse). But, when my dad sat down with me to have the sex talk and left me with the ‘Love, Sex, and God’ book, one thing was clear to me: the male anatomical drawings in the book were more sexual to me than the female anatomical drawings.

      While my friends were titillated by women’s boobs and butts, I couldn’t care less. Honestly, I wasn’t so revved up about the men’s bodies either, but they were clearly what I was oriented towards sexually. But when my friends started having romantic crushes and later forming romantic bonds with girls, it was quite clear to me that I was romantically drawn to other boys.

      I stuffed those feelings deep down for years. I eventually met a woman with whom I bonded in an unusual friendship, I told her about my same-sex attractions, but we believed the Christian message that it was just a ‘temptation’ and that it would work out if we just followed god.

      We married. I was always honest with her, I never cheated or got swept into gay porn.

      But, as the years passed, we discovered the painful truth that sexuality does indeed matter. It mattered for both of us. Sexuality and romance are a deep part of who we are–they are not just a temptation. And as time went on, we both recognized the damage that our incompatible sexualities did to each other.

      For her, as a woman, she never had the experience of seeing excitement in my eyes for her body. She want to ignite something in me, to be like the Beloved in Song of Songs. She wanted see longing and desire in my eyes. The lack thereof, my unintentional-but-obvious indifference to her body was crushing to her.

      For me, I wasn’t desperate for sex with a man, but I began to understand clearly that the part of myself that I had suppressed was relevant. And the sense of loss I felt generated a lot of depression.

      If that’s hard for you to understand, if it’s hard for you to identify the difference between the sex act and sexuality more broadly, just consider the reverse: Imagine if a straight man grew up being told that attraction to women was an abomination, being told that he was weaker, lesser, grotesque, less manly, probably-a-pedophile, etc for his desire to romance and be sexual with a woman. Imagine he suppressed his longing and instead married his male best friend. How do you think that would go for the rest of his life? Would you call his desire to be with a woman, romantically, sexually, and emotionally, nothing more than a temptation? Or would you recognize that, for most straight men, their longing to journey sexually, romantically, and in family life with a woman is an immense part of who they are? If you can imagine that, than you can understand that the same is true for gay men, it’s just that, by no choice of their own, their longing is oriented to another man.

      Indeed, sexuality is far more than what happens in the bedroom. That’s why you’ll find a romantic thread throughout almost every story, book, movie, etc, both inside and outside the church. It’s a deep part of us. And forcing gay people into straight marriages is almost always a recipe for disaster in the long run.

      You’ll find that most Christians who actually look into this issue conclude that sexual orientation does not change, or if it does it is an almost-never occurrence even for the most faithful believers, and that it is too damaging for both partners to encourage these mixed-orientation marriages. The new vogue in Christian thinking is to ask same-sex attracted people to remain celibate and unmarried. I have Christian friends who are living this way.

      But I hope you’ll take stock of what this means: the church isn’t just asking them to give up sex, it’s asking them to give up having a marriage, children, grandchildren–the very stuff that makes life meaningful for the majority of humanity. You’re asking them to forego all those basic human joys and journeys in favor of waking up alone each morning and facing a lifetime without hope of finding that someone special, of bonding bodily and romantically, of watching their children’s first steps, of dancing with their grandchildren at Christmas time in their old age.

      Think about what you are asking.

      My wife and I journeyed through this issue for years. Opening up about it, accepting our sexualities, and being who we are has been an immense relief. What a burden has been lifted from both of us. And the truth is, the more fully ourselves we are, the more capable we are of genuinely loving and serving others.

      I’m no longer a christian. Not only because of this issue, for many of my own reasons. But I still understand the christian perspective, I still admire the message of Jesus. But the evangelical stance towards LGBTQ people has done incredible damage and introduced such darkness and hell into so many people’s lives. It’s not ok, it’s not simply a personal belief; it has real consequences.

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      • Hi I read your reply and appreciate your point of view. You mentionned that asking same-sex attracted people to remain celibate means asking them to “give up having a marriage, children, grandchildren” and “facing a lifetime without hope of […] watching their children’s first steps…” I just wanted to point out that same-sex partners cannot produce children between them…not be able to have children is inherent in a same-sex relationship. If a same-sex attracted person wants to have children, he/she will have to do so with an opposite-sex partner, not between the same-sex partner themselves. The church does not forbid people to have children. I think in this case, the church is asking same-sex attracted people to not act upon their sexual desires. But many churches have priests&nuns etc. that are celibate and do not marry or have children for God. 

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        • Hi Ann,

          Thanks for your response.

          I’d ask you to take the time to think through the implications of your statement. There are many, many married heterosexual couples who cannot produce children; many of these couples choose to adopt. Depending on the age they adopt at, they are there for their children’s first steps and to dance with their grandchildren at Christmas time. Similar to these couples, many same-sex couples choose to adopt. I presume you would agree that parents who adopt are not any less legitimate than parents who have children by birth, nor are those parenthood moments any less important to them.

          So, no, the church isn’t simply asking lesbian and gay folks to “not act on their sexual desires”. It is indeed asking them to forego a marriage relationship, to miss watching their children take their first steps, and to never dance with their grandchildren at a Christmas gathering. Don’t take my word for it, go ask a gay celibate christian about what they struggle with and what they are being asked to give up–especially a gay celibate christian over the age of 30.

          It is true that there are individuals who choose a life of celibacy. I’ll avoid a long discussion on catholic priests and the sex abuse they’ve been guilty of here, but I will remind you that these individuals have made a choice of their own volition. Most people agree that not everyone is cut out for such a life of sacrifice and intense loneliness–so for the church to ask this of all same-sex attracted individuals, all while pretending that their sacrifice is nothing more than avoiding sexual temptation, is unequivocally cruel and unjust.

          I’m not sure where you live, Ann, or what kind of circles you socialize in. I feel no enmity towards you or others who share your way of thinking. But my disagreement with that way of thinking is absolute, because I bear witness to its torturous ramifications. My suggestion to you is this: before you entrench in your position, get to know a gay or lesbian couple that has married and raised children. And get to know a gay celibate christian and ask him or her about their journey. Suspend judgment until you see life from their point of view.

          Like

  30. Pingback: هل تقبُّل المثليين يؤدي إلى دمار الحضارات؟ | Dawa09's Blog·

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